Black Sussex

KKP Susex · **Joined:** Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:41 pm **Posts:** 3

Nothing wrong with a mature discussion on what may with or without demanding pictures, gee its called discussion

Ancient Australorp · **Joined:** Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:56 pm **Posts:** 27

P_Edwards wrote:

As Bill did not mention pictures AA you may not want to hold your breath please I would hate you turning blue. As I said earlier I will see what I can do to get some pictures so relax

Absolutely P_Edwards, it wasn't Bill who mentioned pictures, it was that Tasmanian Devil, Denis, but I would still love to see the pictures of these elusive colours.

Thanks for the concern of my health, but I won't be turning blue. It's good to have a lively discussion without some over zealous Moderator jumping down our throats. :lol:

RoosterisBillturd · **Joined:** Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:42 pm **Posts:** 65

Ancient Australorp wrote:

I've never seen a Black Sussex or a true Mottled Sussex in Australia, nor in Great Britain when I've visited.

I think some people often confuse Mottled Sussex with Silver Sussex, and for those who don't know, on rare occasions they have been mistaken for Speckled Sussex. The only reference that I have heard of Mottled Sussex was at a show that I once judged and the steward told me that there were 5 or 6 assorted "Mottled Sussex" in the AOC Sussex classes. They turned out to be poor quality feather examples of Silver Sussex.

There is no reference to Black Sussex or Mottled Sussex in the Australian Standards, however as I stated above, I think people get confused or mistaken with the actual colour descriptions.

And Bill I think like a Breeder because I am a breeder. Judging is just an invitation by a poultry club to one who breeds, understands, can pass on knowledge, and can interpret the Australian Standards and adjudicate on the various species.
For the record a Java and a Sussex are nothing like each other. They are have a totally different skeletal conformation make-up.

I think your right on the money AA, I Know of no mention of the mottled or black sussex in the Australian or British Standard, and as the Australian Standard is what we use in this Country if the colour or breed does not appear within this publication then frankly as far as the exhibition world is concern it just does not exist. Yes I have heard all the arguments already about why you should be able to put any bird in a show in an AOV class but just because you can create it or breed it does not entitle it to be benched at a show.

Denass · **Posted:** Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:21 pm

The concern with the sudden 'appearence" of new colours in any breed is the scarcity of evidence. It's all very well to proclaim the existence of a brand new colour but, as AA has said, there is far more to a breed than just colour. Lets see these birds and show us proof that they really are sussex. Do they have sussex size and type? Do they breed true? Do they have white legs, etc, etc.?

I suspect that people are confusing mottled with speckled, and black with silver.

Bill · **Posted:** Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:04 am

Rooster, no one has mentioned the exhibition world and for you to say

Rooster wrote:

the Australian Standard is what we use in this Country if the colour or breed does not appear within this publication then frankly as far as the exhibition world is concern it just does not exist

Is such a narrow view if it was not for the hard work of people working outside the "standard" many colours in breeds would not exist. Like I said previously put down the standard its not the bible and look out side the box

Bill · **Posted:** Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:11 am

DenisL wrote:

The concern with the sudden 'appearence" of new colours in any breed is the scarcity of evidence. It's all very well to proclaim the existence of a brand new colour but, as AA has said, there is far more to a breed than just colour. Lets see these birds and show us proof that they really are sussex. Do they have sussex size and type? Do they breed true? Do they have white legs, etc, etc.?

I suspect that people are confusing mottled with speckled, and black with silver.

Dennis have the belief as a matter of fact that many out there know as much or more than you and are not confused at all, thats a little condescending to me.

Its no wonder many people working on new projects and achieving good results stay to themselves with this sort of negative reaction :roll:

Denass · **Posted:** Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:18 am

You confuse negativity with scepticism , Bill. Show us some proof of the existence of black and mottled sussex that breed true and can be recognised as Sussex.

RoosterisBillturd · **Joined:** Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:42 pm **Posts:** 65

Bill wrote:

Rooster, no one has mentioned the exhibition world and for you to say

Rooster wrote:

the Australian Standard is what we use in this Country if the colour or breed does not appear within this publication then frankly as far as the exhibition world is concern it just does not exist

Is such a narrow view if it was not for the hard work of people working outside the "standard" many colours in breeds would not exist. Like I said previously put down the standard its not the bible and look out side the box

The Standard is there for a reason as you well know and without it we may as well allow any old bird that some one claims to have bred on the bench on their say so alone. There is a process behind the standardization of each breed and its admittance to the APS as there is with any other animal that is bred and shown for exhibition but it seems that in the poultry world those outside of the system seem to want to cry fowl all the time simply because they can make up a colour and want it accepted on the exhibition bench rather than go through the standard process of having it admitted. Purely out of interest Bill do you or have you every exhibited poultry in
SA ?

oozcorpse · **Joined:** Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:15 am **Posts:** 2715

fully aware a discussion is just that - so my opinion

what is (or is not) overseas has very little bearing on what is in OZ

The ‘new colours’ within any OZ breed are exhibited under Any Other Recognised Colour OR Any Other Colour = until such time as they have met the criteria to be accepted for consideration into the APS (or are accepted) as a Recognised Colour for the given breed

So on those grounds no one should say “as far as the exhibition world is concerned it just does not exist” = one person cannot speak for all
NOR should anyone have a go at anyone that has this belief, respecting the fact that is that persons belief

And please note that it is predominantly the exhibition breeders who ARE developing the new colours within their chosen breed/s

Also = to put any developing argument to rest =
produce pictures and if possible supply information where the colour will be exhibited so people can see them in the flesh
personally I think a fullly Black Sussex would be something to see

and then lets discuss the development of the Black Sussex in a realistic way

RoosterisBillturd · **Joined:** Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:42 pm **Posts:** 65

As far as the mysterious black sussex are concerned I will await the coming photos, however at this stage any reference I can find as to black sussex at this stage is as Dennis has already mention simply purely badly marked Silver Sussex.

The new colours and breeds due to be released from quarantine shortly are a completely different discussion and no, AORV and AORC are not categories in which they can be placed. It will be several years before they reach the show bench giving them plenty of time to be shown off at breed clubs before submissions are sent to have them included within the APS, automatic inclusion into the APS should not be awarded just because they have arrived, interested groups should still have to make submissions to have them included.

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