How hard is it to develop new colours?

Salmon Faverolles · **Joined:** Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:28 pm **Posts:** 210

Hi Doggo and Ace

No I am defiantly not discouraged, more excited :-D

I wanting to expand my stud into some of the more rarer breeds and varieties of fowls.
Currently on my wish list are Spanish, Houdans, Sultans, Polish, Siemiese Fireback Pheasants and Guinea Fowl in all colours. So if you guys know of breeders

I currently breed Salmon Faverolles, Dark and Jubilee Indian Game, Muscovies and Jungle Fowl aswell as a couple of other breeds.

Ace I will contact you next year but I do hope to contribute on this forum. Also is there any chance you could help me join the sub forum Guinea Gossip.

NightMare · **Posted:** Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:15 am

Ace wrote:

We are talking about mutations of guinea fowl not base genetics of domestic fowl. Yes. Yes by all means have a go SF [smilie=a_goodjobson.gif]

Yes Yes keep those feelers out for the colour that do exist.

Doggo what combinations should SF use to make these mutations? Over what time frame? How many will he need to start? How closely related to start? Will he need to inbreed? if so how often? and how close? When should he outcross? What advice for culling? sorry short on time but I have many more questions.

Great to have your input [smilie=a_goodjobson.gif]

So looking forward to your full posted breeding plan Doggo, are you posting it today? please we all can't wait a minute longer

doggo · **Posted:** Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:55 am

NightMare wrote:

Ace wrote:

We are talking about mutations of guinea fowl not base genetics of domestic fowl. Yes. Yes by all means have a go SF [smilie=a_goodjobson.gif]

Yes Yes keep those feelers out for the colour that do exist.

Doggo what combinations should SF use to make these mutations? Over what time frame? How many will he need to start? How closely related to start? Will he need to inbreed? if so how often? and how close? When should he outcross? What advice for culling? sorry short on time but I have many more questions.

Great to have your input [smilie=a_goodjobson.gif]

So looking forward to your full posted breeding plan Doggo, are you posting it today? please we all can't wait a minute longer

This would be a perfect opportunity for the experienced members of the Guinea Group to take a keen young novice under their wing and generously share the benefits of their accumulated wisdom to provide their opinions on all of these matters.

NightMare · **Posted:** Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:24 am

So no plan then Doggo

NightMare · **Posted:** Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:32 am

doggo wrote:

This would be a perfect opportunity for the experienced members of the Guinea Group to take a keen young novice under their wing and generously share the benefits of their accumulated wisdom to provide their opinions on all of these matters.

they already have :lol:

We were hoping to add yours but no I guess not so easy after all conf665

soozorps wrote:

Do you want to develop your own lines or develop new colours?

I am only speaking from personal experience as an acknowledged Breeder/Developer/Exhibitor of new colours within my breeds (not Guinea Fowl) and the requirements within Clubs and the APS (Australian Poultry Standard)

To develop your own lines = keep meticulous records and allow a number of generations of selective breeding within the birds you already have to establish the traits you want to clearly identify the lines as yours - bear in mind it can take anything up to 10 or more years to set the traits and have them breeding true
BUT you also need to acknowledge where your line/s originated from as it is the lines origins that really count = to acknowledge the origins of the lines you have/have developed gives more credence to your line/s and is respectful of the many many years of work put into them by the original breeder

To develop a new colour = keep meticulous records and expect a minimum of 9 to 10 years to get the colour right then another 4 generations of the colour breeding true before you can actually say “I did it” = a new colour is required to be proven to breed true for a minimum of 4 generations before it can be considered for inclusion in that breed standard as a new colour

Patience is the KEY to developing a new line or new colour - patience and meticulous record keeping

Ace wrote:

Soozorps has answered your question well. I will ADD the following, note I said ADD

Do you know guinea fowl genetics? I am not talking about what's found on google from duck, horse, budgie or human hair genetics like the beginner googlerollboy as none apply to guineas. I mean do you actually know what genes are at play and how they interact by this I mean genetic interactions that reveal gene function, the nature of a mutation, functional redundancy, and protein interactions ect..... just to name a few. If not then thats your place to start and study for the next 3 to 5 years and test breed to understand the inheritance of genes.

Do you have guinea fowl?
Do you know the family genetics of them ALL.
How many generations can you go back? you need approx 8-10 years.

After you have spent the 5 years studying the genetics your next step is to start your breeding program as soozorps has layed out for you. Allow 10 years minimum if you have no generational knowledge of your flock. If all goes well 15 + years from now your may or may not get the results.

One tip: Pied to Pied = 100% Pied NEVER white.

Have a look on page1 :roll:

C.K · **Posted:** Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:09 pm

You don't want too may breeds as well ,I was told that to to a breed justice to keep it to 2 or 3 , after having 14 different breeds I tend to agree but choosing can be hard.

oozcorpse · **Joined:** Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:15 am **Posts:** 2715

C.K. wrote:

You don't want too may breeds as well ,I was told that to do a breed justice to keep it to 2 or 3 , after having 14 different breeds I tend to agree but choosing can be hard.

totally true and even breeds = if you have only one breed try to limit the colours within the breed especially when starting - I know the temptation is there to get as many colours as possible (the mind will tell you "Its OK you can handle it all") but that is most peoples downfall

she says :oops:

knowing I am not 'the old cat woman' here - I am 'the old chook woman' :-D

= if I only had one colour I would have FAR too many of that one colour

Salmon Faverolles · **Joined:** Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:28 pm **Posts:** 210

I know that it is a good idea to focus on a couple breeds but you can be successful.
It depends on your setup, council and how much space you have.

I am wanting to set up a rare breeds stud where people can find quality birds. Breeds like the Siamese Fireback Pheasant and the Bourbon Red Turkey are extremely hard to find. So basically what I am wanting do is similiar to what P.A is doing with pheasants and Guinea Fowl.

Night Mare, what do you mean by ' we were hoping to add yours, guess its not so easy'. If you could help me sign up to GG that would be great.

Also I am not entirely confident when it comes to genetics with Guinea Fowl but I really want to learn so any help is appreciated.

Thanks everyone for replying I am enjoying reading all your posts.

NightMare · **Posted:** Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:39 pm

Salmon Faverolles wrote:

Night Mare, what do you mean by ' we were hoping to add yours, guess its not so easy'.

Its a reply to Doggo

NightMare · **Posted:** Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:41 pm

soozorps wrote:

C.K. wrote:

You don't want too may breeds as well ,I was told that to do a breed justice to keep it to 2 or 3 , after having 14 different breeds I tend to agree but choosing can be hard.

totally true and even breeds = if you have only one breed try to limit the colours within the breed especially when starting - I know the temptation is there to get as many colours as possible (the mind will tell you "Its OK you can handle it all") but that is most peoples downfall

she says :oops:

knowing I am not 'the old cat woman' here - I am 'the old chook woman' :-D

= if I only had one colour I would have FAR too many of that one colour

Very few true specialists in oz these days most want a bit of everything :lol:

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