AUSTRALIAN POULTRY FORUM™

Rooster, What are you talking about? have you got the right topic? what have the imports got to do with new colours being created in australia? no one I see have every mentioned the imports except you?


I blew that up so you can see that.

Rooster I can assure you I know the APS system VERY well but again we are not talking about the APS PLEASE stay focused.

Well put Soozorps

All very nice but incorrect. There are NO such thing as AOC and AOV classes these are just the result of lazy conveners and show secretaries and a result to placate a few people who feel slighted because they can show their NON standardized fowl, the easy way to silence a squeaky wheel is to give it a bit of oil and that is all is being done in this case nothing more. The correct term is AORC = Any other recognized colour and AORV = Any other recognized variety. OH and BILL thank you so much for correcting me in such a fine manner is it so greatly appreciated. No doubt I will be told I am incorrect in this too but I am expecting that The the development of the Black Sussex if they do exist at the moment it would be interesting to see photos of said birds to see how they stack up against existing examples of the breed and see if they meet the standard.

Well that's offensive to call MANY clubs officials LAZY, Also there most certainly is AOC in MANY clubs, would you like some examples of clubs that do Rooster? I can provide them anytime. People creating new colours in breeds are not squeaky wheels and that is also offensive. I have a couple of questions Rooster, Do you or have you shown fowl? Does your club have an AOC or AORC? If not can you name the club?

Please be respectful to all and clubs [general message]

With respect no matter how many you can provide they are still incorrect that is the fact of the matter, it is simply short hand for AOV or AOC and unfortunately over the years because people seem to wish to accept it or dont wish to correct it nor in force it because it can be too much hassle, but regardless it is still incorrect. Read the post I did not say people breeding new colours in breeds are squeaky wheels I indicated that those who push and in some cases demand that they be shown. I am not against new colours such as they Black Sussex but until they have been bred to match the standard for type that is required for sussex in this case and have had the backing and been displayed at breed clubs and they are accepted into the standard they have no place on the show bench. As for do I show fowl I have done so for a number of years, and my fowl do reasonably well on the show bench and I am of member the local state body and of numerous clubs and was also Club Secretary / Convener of one of those for a number of years and I got rid of all the AOC and AOV classes and replaced them with the correct AORC and AORV classes on the Schedule.

I believe Rooster is firmly on the right track with getting rid of aoc and aov classes in shows.
If people want to exhibit new colors/ breeds/ varietys, clubs should run a display class for them and they should'nt be elidgable for major awards until they are standardised.
The aorc and aorv classes are for colors and varietys that that are already recognised/ standardised that the club does'nt wish to have classes for due to low numbers of said color or variety.

fowlslave and rooster, just one minor point well for most of us a major point, showing fowls or any birds is a social event of FUN a chance to catch up with others and chat and have some FUN its not cloak and dagger stuff, its not win all as the focus, its to help encourage the breeding of fowls. The AOV class is apart of most clubs and has been for a long time to encourage and recognize the work of those out there not lazy and creating new and interesting colours in breeds so the lazy ones can buy them when the hard works done. The AOV is to show case that work and allow these fowls to be shown while waiting for the long process of APS approval. The AOV is not only in fowls but in most, if not all shows of birds, dogs and cats and more....

You cannot say the AOV is incorrect just because you don't like it or that the correct term is AORC because thats what you feel or your club may or may not have changed it. Its not for you to make demands on other clubs and push an agenda on others. I too have shown fowls but for a very long time not a number of years but decades and I feel the AOV is correct with the current APS system.

Above all else its all about FUN and if a trophy is the sole focus then buying one is cheaper

It is an interesting take on the situation but not entirely correct Bill. Look at any club and from your response you must have been to many clubs and shows over the years and you too must recognize that there are mostly two categories of people that show fowl, you have the serious exhibitor which a large proportion of people fall into and the people who are there because they just like to show their fowl and enjoy the social interaction on the day. Now there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, it makes for an interesting mix of people and birds on the day. Now if you look at the old time exhibitors most of the people today would not live with them these were men and women who were very serious about what they did, people like the Manglesdorf brothers etc. These were people far more interested in breeding a damn good bird who may have the odd project on the side looking at breeding a colour they could not procure. These people were not insisting on bringing works in progress on to the show bench and wanting them judged it simply did not happen. Whilst new colours are interesting and do have their appeal and at some stage when they have been through the breed clubs their development finished and they are breeding true etc etc and they get in the APS yes they then have a place on the general show bench but not before. Now Bill talk with men and women in their 70's, 80's and 90's who are present and past showmen and women and there was no such thing as AOC and AOV it simply did not exist, it is through the passing of time, changing of the guard however you like to put it even the dropping of standards that these two categories have crept into our schedules. Now Bill you make a point that it is "have some FUN its not cloak and dagger stuff" I think that could be a little extreme really dont you ? Yes I know people that dont let other poultry breeders and prospective buyers on to their properties but that is mainly to do with disease control and security etc than anything else. "Creating new and interesting colours in breeds so the lazy ones can buy them when the hard works done". In effect your saying that anyone that buys a trio of say ginger rosecombs, white langshans or any of the other less common colours that have been developed falls fairly and squarely into the category, now I have blown that up in the quote of your response just so you can see it, but I am sure there would be a fair number of people that would find that comment truly offensive in the extreme.

All the twisting of words changes nothing rooster you have blinkers on and I am wasting my time as I have no doubt I have been around far longer than you in shows and heard and see all the versions on that "new wheel"

All the best
Bill

P_Edwards, you are most certainly correct just a brief view of a current show schedule of classes to see AOV, oh well lets hope the subject can return to Black Sussex now.

If you want to digress to discussion on classes please start a new topic on that and not hijack Dazza Sussex topic on Black Sussex


Thank you
LooLoo