How hard is it to develop new colours?

Salmon Faverolles · **Joined:** Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:28 pm **Posts:** 210

Hi everyone

I have just recently signed up to APF and it great :-D

I really like reading all the Guinea Fowl topics and have a few questions.

I currently breed Pearl, Lavender, Pearl Pied, Lavender Pied and wanted to know if anyone could help me source some new colours?

If I was unable to source new colours from breeders how hard is it to create my own lines of these colours (White, Powder Blue)

Regards
Rhys

oozcorpse · **Joined:** Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:15 am **Posts:** 2715

Do you want to develop your own lines or develop new colours?

I am only speaking from personal experience as an acknowledged Breeder/Developer/Exhibitor of new colours within my breeds (not Guinea Fowl) and the requirements within Clubs and the APS (Australian Poultry Standard)

To develop your own lines = keep meticulous records and allow a number of generations of selective breeding within the birds you already have to establish the traits you want to clearly identify the lines as yours - bear in mind it can take anything up to 10 or more years to set the traits and have them breeding true
BUT you also need to acknowledge where your line/s originated from as it is the lines origins that really count = to acknowledge the origins of the lines you have/have developed gives more credence to your line/s and is respectful of the many many years of work put into them by the original breeder

To develop a new colour = keep meticulous records and expect a minimum of 9 to 10 years to get the colour right then another 4 generations of the colour breeding true before you can actually say “I did it” = a new colour is required to be proven to breed true for a minimum of 4 generations before it can be considered for inclusion in that breed standard as a new colour

Patience is the KEY to developing a new line or new colour - patience and meticulous record keeping

Salmon Faverolles · **Joined:** Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:28 pm **Posts:** 210

Thanks for replying Soozorps

Basically what i want to do is source some of the rarer colours like White and Powder Blue from breeders on this site.

If i was unable to get these colours from breeders how would i go about developing these colours from Pearl,Lavender, Pearl Pied and Lavender Pied.

I am really interesting in breeding these rarer colours and helping other breeders out.

Also i noticed there was a sub-forum called Guinea Gossip I would really like to become a member, could someone help me become a member?

Regards
Rhys

Ace · **Posted:** Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:05 pm

Soozorps has answered your question well. I will ADD the following, note I said ADD

Do you know guinea fowl genetics? I am not talking about what's found on google from duck, horse, budgie or human hair genetics like the beginner googlerollboy as none apply to guineas. I mean do you actually know what genes are at play and how they interact by this I mean genetic interactions that reveal gene function, the nature of a mutation, functional redundancy, and protein interactions ect..... just to name a few. If not then thats your place to start and study for the next 3 to 5 years and test breed to understand the inheritance of genes.

Do you have guinea fowl?
Do you know the family genetics of them ALL.
How many generations can you go back? you need approx 8-10 years.

After you have spent the 5 years studying the genetics your next step is to start your breeding program as soozorps has layed out for you. Allow 10 years minimum if you have no generational knowledge of your flock. If all goes well 15 + years from now your may or may not get the results.

One tip: Pied to Pied = 100% Pied NEVER white.

Salmon Faverolles · **Joined:** Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:28 pm **Posts:** 210

Hi Ace

I do have Guinea Fowl already in the following colours Pearl, Lavender, Pearl Pied and Lavender Pied. I am fairly confident on their origins.

Ace would you be able to supply me with eggs? I am really wanting to start a stud and it would probably be easier to start fro birds with a solid background.

Down where I am it is very hard to find a breeder who knows their lines.

Ace · **Posted:** Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:13 pm

Salmon Faverolles wrote:

Hi Ace

I am fairly confident on their origins.

Impressive, What are their origins? Who bred all the guinea fowls related to yours going back 8-10 generations? What if any hidden genes do they carry?

Salmon Faverolles · **Joined:** Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:28 pm **Posts:** 210

Like I said I am fairly confident of the origin.

By origin you mean the parent stock, don't you? If so I have a friend out near Mudgee. They have two lines of Guinea Fowl on two separate properties. I am unsure how long or solid these lines are and how many generations they go back. They leg band and toe punch but I am unsure if they document anything which is obviously a big problem if am to create a stud.

Sorry if I sound like a fool

I am thinking I will try and sell my current birds and start anew with lines I am 100% confident in. Would you be able to help me out?

I am wanting to have a proper Guinea Stud and I think it is best to have lines you are confident. Even if sourcing them is pricey.

Ace · **Posted:** Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:55 pm

Sounds like just backyard flocks ( heinz 57 variety :lol:

) with no history so waste of time unless you start your own line or as you say buy into the most powerful line with history over 30 years like PA's as I did. Make contact with me this time next year and I could have a few mutations not sold I can sell you in Cinnamon + Pied/Reverse Pied (red & dark eye), Silver + Pied/Reverse Pied (red & dark eye), White (Solid) and Cream, Not Blues or Purples they are not out from PA as yet well not for the public anyway and the waiting list on AGFBG is very big so you won't get those for 3 or 4 years. My Browns from PA are too young and if they do bred next year ALL will be kept and the following year.

doggo · **Posted:** Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:49 pm

I hope that you are not too discouraged SF. Why not have a go? You already have a few varieties with which to observe genetic outcomes of various matings.
I gather that you are breeding domestic fowl as well and by and large the same basic genetic principles apply. After all guinea fowl are fairly closely related to common domestic fowl and share much genetic makeup to the point where the two species will hybridize. Of course being different species there are some genetic differences but nothing that really sets them apart from other avian species.
Many successful poultry breeders do not have extensive formal training in genetics or an understanding of the finer points of theoretical genetics.
If you keep the feelers out for different colour varieties that may exist in Australia no doubt some will become available.

Ace · **Posted:** Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:02 pm

We are talking about mutations of guinea fowl not base genetics of domestic fowl. Yes. Yes by all means have a go SF [smilie=a_goodjobson.gif]

Yes Yes keep those feelers out for the colour that do exist.

Doggo what combinations should SF use to make these mutations? Over what time frame? How many will he need to start? How closely related to start? Will he need to inbreed? if so how often? and how close? When should he outcross? What advice for culling? sorry short on time but I have many more questions.

Great to have your input [smilie=a_goodjobson.gif]

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