AUSTRALIAN POULTRY FORUM™

One of my langshan pullets cannot stand she always fall to one side. but she can sit for a while and then falls over.
she is only young around a few months.
not sure what it wrong

I note you have a sick drake too. Are they penned together, or do they free range together? Is there any chance they've accessed something dead, or stagnant water?

I can't help but think botulism could be a potential cause. Signs include birds which are floppy and weak and struggle holding their head up. They struggle to swallow so have difficultly drinking and eating.

There's every chance it's not of course, but its the first thing which springs to mind. I'll keep doing some searching just in case...

What are her legs like when she flops over are they pushed straight out? Is she eating and drinking normally or not at all?

If the pullet was the only sick bird I would have suspected Mareks. Has she been vaccinated?

Fowl and ducks don't mix well. The ducks contaminate the water with mud etc. How often do you change the water. Haveyou had a lot of rain?

Roova may be on the money having the 2 species running together.

Rhode Red

Botulism is very common when poultry and waterfowl are run together = high possibility

Soozorps- I don't get the connection between running waterfowl and poultry together and the occurrence of botulism.

Botulism is a bacterial toxin, usually related to decomposing carcasses exposed when water levels drop.

Are you saying there's a relationship there?

Just curious

Parvo

The toxin produced by the botulism bacteria can be commonly found in soil, spoiled food and decaying animal and plant matter. As parvo said it most frequently strikes in dryer weather when water level drop leaving decaying matter available for ducks to eat. Maggots which feed on decaying carcasses can also carry the botulism toxin as well as canned food from the pantry or rotting scraps avaiable to the birds.

Symptoms generally take 3-5 days in humans so I wonder if its less for poultry? We haven't heard back from Charlie01 with any more information which doesn't help. I'm surprised because they did ask for urgent help!

It would be good to know what the poultry are being fed, are they running together or only when free ranging, if any other birds show symptoms and if there is a chance they could have access to spoiled food.

Firstly my apologies now if this answer seems convoluted – the brain isn’t working too well today – long haul at hospital again

I have witnessed first hand the connection between poultry, waterfowl and botulism. We lost 4 turkeys 2 summers ago to botulism [at about the end of that summer = same as this urgent post] – 2 others nearly went down to it but were diagnosed via Vet and treated accordingly – these 2 survived. It was later confirmed via autopsy on the deceased birds.
We had wild ducks [multi coloured ones and each was a good size] come in the turkey paddock – they stayed for about a week, they were seen many times foraging thru our rubbish pit and they made a mess in the small dam [that the turkeys drank from, without me making a connection at the time ] each time they went for a swim or drink – tests on the water ‘after the fact’ confirmed it had been contaminated. The small dam was drained and we found rotten food in the bottom of it. After it was drained the back hoe was brought in to fill that small dam [ a perk of farm life = having a backhoe on standby] – I supplied the turkeys water fresh daily after that and continue to do so in their current home.

Also a friend lost a number of chicks to botulism just last year – some bread had fallen in the water and gone ‘off’ causing botulism

A former neighbour runs her geese and chooks together stating they get along fine - but regularly complained the chooks are always sick and that she lost some regularly and [her in tears] wanting me to make them ‘better’ - when asked – she always said the same thing “Its like they have food poisoning or something.” So I would ask “is the water kept clean?” the answer was always "how can I keep it clean when the geese mess it up again straight away?” my response " seperate them then." reply to that "Oh I cant do that, they get along so well, they might miss each other!" to which I would just say – “you need to take the birds to the Vet” [whilst mentally sighing at the reluctance of that former neighbour to LOOK at what she was doing to her birds – yes she fed them bread, and no, not once, did she take a bird to the Vet, but regularly dropped in, sick bird in hand, for me to fix it – like I said = sigh! ]

Many people feed their waterfowl bread and other food scraps not realising how careful they need to be to make sure it is all eaten or that any left is removed so there is no chance of ‘poisoning’ - even waterfowl can get botulism [just stating the obvious here]

Waterfowl, as we all know, are highly water dependant and usually do ‘fowl up’ a water source give time. They poop in the water they swim/wash in = faecal matter is a waste product and in itself can contaminate to the point of making birds/animals sick

# I hope my rambled reply made 'some' sense?

They both do not run together.
The pullet is in a shed by her self getting special care. She is still drinking and eating.
They both haven't be vaccinated.
I will take a picture of the drakes eyes/face and post it.

Thanks soozorps.

I guess that if the ducks mess the water with food, and the chickens have access to this water, and the water isn't changed often enough, that the decomposing food could be a source of botulinum toxin.

The critical thing with botulism is that it requires an ANAEROBIC environment ie- oxygen-depleted water.

If ponds or dams are well aerated or changed regularly, the risk of botulism is dramatically reduced.

With stale bread I'd be more concerned about the aflatoxins which grow on mouldy bread than I normally would worry about botulism. This has caused many die-offs in both chicken and duck flocks until the owner stopped feeding mouldy bread. This was confirmed by post mortem examination and histopathology.

Diagnosing botulism, on the other hand, is more hit and miss. There are no definite signs post mortem and the toxin is isolated in only a very few of the cases in which botulism is suspected.

So, it makes things interesting, doesn't it!!

Cheers

Parvo